Looking for Thunderbird/Icedove

[Björn Höfling]

One of my key customers needs a new GNU/Linux installation and they are
willing to give GuixSD a try if Thunderbird is available.

I thought that's no problem and was surprised to not find anything
like Icedove in the guix repository.

I found two references on the net, but both are negative:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-08/msg00231.html
https://gitlab.secushare.org/infotropique/issues/issues/4

Are there any more recent news on the Thunderbird side? Does anyone have
more-or-less ready snippets available?

Maybe I can convince then to switch to an alternative: What would you
suggest for a graphical mail-reader that can import Thunderbird message
archives and address book and is part of Guix?

Thanks,

Björn

[Rene]

Hello,

GNOME Evolution is another graphical mail-reader;
currently it is not packaged, but the important part is that it requires the evolution-data-server service that does not exist either.

See more:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution

[Nils Gillmann]

Post by Rene
Hello,
GNOME Evolution is another graphical mail-reader;
currently it is not packaged, but the important part is that it requires the evolution-data-server service that does not exist either.
https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution

I'm confused. Are you asking about Evolution (the mailinglist
should have an older thread where I posted an initial receipe)
or Thunderbird/Icedove?
As far as I know no one else is working on Thunderbird for now
except for me. Current part where I'm struck for some time now:
errors related to mdb.h which is searched, never found etc
in the build process.

[Nils Gillmann]

Post by Björn Höfling
One of my key customers needs a new GNU/Linux installation and they are
willing to give GuixSD a try if Thunderbird is available.
I thought that's no problem and was surprised to not find anything
like Icedove in the guix repository.
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-08/msg00231.html
https://gitlab.secushare.org/infotropique/issues/issues/4

The second link is negative. I stopped pretending that bugtrackers
are of any use without people caring for them.

Post by Björn Höfling
Are there any more recent news on the Thunderbird side? Does anyone have
more-or-less ready snippets available?

I can not post the link to straight-out of the box Thunderbird here
(current repository is against the policy in Guix), but if you really
want to work on it I can send you the link offlist (just contact me at

Post by Björn Höfling
Maybe I can convince then to switch to an alternative: What would you
suggest for a graphical mail-reader that can import Thunderbird message
archives and address book and is part of Guix?

Thunderbird has its own format, right? .eml, but can export to mbox.
So I guess anything that reads mbox would work?

Post by Björn Höfling
Thanks,
Björn

[Mark H Weaver]

Hi Nils,

Post by Nils Gillmann

Post by Björn Höfling
Are there any more recent news on the Thunderbird side? Does anyone have
more-or-less ready snippets available?

I can not post the link to straight-out of the box Thunderbird here
(current repository is against the policy in Guix), but if you really
want to work on it I can send you the link offlist (just contact me at

Did someone tell you that you shouldn't post a preliminary
Thunderbird/Icedove package definition to this mailing list?
If so, can you show me the email?

It's true that we shouldn't post package definitions for nonfree
software on the Guix mailing lists. However, Thunderbird/Icedove has
only a couple of known freedom issues which have apparently already been
addressed in Parabola GNU/Linux:

https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines#Thunderbird

Given that a GNU FSDG compliant version of Thunderbird/Icedove already
exists, and that we could surely apply the same fixes to our package, I
see no problem with you posting your preliminary package definition.
Please do so. It would enable other interested developers to continue
your work.

Regards,
Mark

[Nils Gillmann]

Post by Mark H Weaver
Hi Nils,

Post by Nils Gillmann

Post by Björn Höfling
Are there any more recent news on the Thunderbird side? Does anyone have
more-or-less ready snippets available?

I can not post the link to straight-out of the box Thunderbird here
(current repository is against the policy in Guix), but if you really
want to work on it I can send you the link offlist (just contact me at

Did someone tell you that you shouldn't post a preliminary
Thunderbird/Icedove package definition to this mailing list?

No. It just exists in a branch in an (experimental, fluid) repository where
other nonfree software (partially as a base for other builds to be upstreamed)
is located in, which is why I mentioned "policy reasons". If that's an exception
I could link to the cgit, I'll do it of course.

If the repo is not okay, I can send a mbox formated patch.

Post by Mark H Weaver
If so, can you show me the email?
It's true that we shouldn't post package definitions for nonfree
software on the Guix mailing lists. However, Thunderbird/Icedove has
only a couple of known freedom issues which have apparently already been
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines#Thunderbird
Given that a GNU FSDG compliant version of Thunderbird/Icedove already
exists, and that we could surely apply the same fixes to our package, I
see no problem with you posting your preliminary package definition.
Please do so. It would enable other interested developers to continue
your work.
Regards,
Mark

[Mark H Weaver]

Post by Nils Gillmann

Post by Mark H Weaver
Did someone tell you that you shouldn't post a preliminary
Thunderbird/Icedove package definition to this mailing list?

No. It just exists in a branch in an (experimental, fluid) repository where
other nonfree software (partially as a base for other builds to be upstreamed)
is located in, which is why I mentioned "policy reasons". If that's an exception
I could link to the cgit, I'll do it of course.

Please do *not* link to that repo here.

Post by Nils Gillmann
If the repo is not okay, I can send a mbox formated patch.

If you can isolate your preliminary Thunderbird/Icedove work from other
nonfree software, then please do send the patch here.

Thanks!
Mark

[Nils Gillmann]

Post by Mark H Weaver

Post by Nils Gillmann

Post by Mark H Weaver
Did someone tell you that you shouldn't post a preliminary
Thunderbird/Icedove package definition to this mailing list?

No. It just exists in a branch in an (experimental, fluid) repository where
other nonfree software (partially as a base for other builds to be upstreamed)
is located in, which is why I mentioned "policy reasons". If that's an exception
I could link to the cgit, I'll do it of course.

Please do *not* link to that repo here.

Post by Nils Gillmann
If the repo is not okay, I can send a mbox formated patch.

If you can isolate your preliminary Thunderbird/Icedove work from other
nonfree software, then please do send the patch here.
Thanks!
Mark

The patches would apply nowhere then, I'm sending a tarball of the work.
You can ignore the AGPL3 header, it's my default and for what I upstream
I relicense.

This is Thunderbird 52.6.0, I fear that version newer than 54.x will have the
same problem I'm debugging in newer Firefox now with mandatory rust.

Headsup: The package is wip'ish and generally very ugly in code.

[Björn Höfling]

On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 20:02:23 +0000

Post by Nils Gillmann
The patches would apply nowhere then, I'm sending a tarball of the
work. You can ignore the AGPL3 header, it's my default and for what I
upstream I relicense.
This is Thunderbird 52.6.0, I fear that version newer than 54.x will
have the same problem I'm debugging in newer Firefox now with
mandatory rust.
Headsup: The package is wip'ish and generally very ugly in code.

Thanks for sharing this. I appreciate that you published this in
WIP-state. I just scrolled through the .scm-definition and be impressed
of the length. Will look into the details later.

Björn

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello,

Post by Björn Höfling
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 20:02:23 +0000

Post by Nils Gillmann
The patches would apply nowhere then, I'm sending a tarball of the
work. You can ignore the AGPL3 header, it's my default and for what I
upstream I relicense.
This is Thunderbird 52.6.0, I fear that version newer than 54.x will
have the same problem I'm debugging in newer Firefox now with
mandatory rust.
Headsup: The package is wip'ish and generally very ugly in code.

Thanks for sharing this. I appreciate that you published this in
WIP-state. I just scrolled through the .scm-definition and be impressed
of the length. Will look into the details later.

Maybe one of you can post the current patch to guix-patches and people
can then work from there? (There’s already a few WIP patches at
https://bugs.gnu.org/guix-patches and I think it’s a fine way to let
people know that you’ve started working on something but that more work
is needed.)

Thanks,
Ludo’.

[Nils Gillmann]

Post by Rene
Hello,

Post by Björn Höfling
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 20:02:23 +0000

Post by Nils Gillmann
The patches would apply nowhere then, I'm sending a tarball of the
work. You can ignore the AGPL3 header, it's my default and for what I
upstream I relicense.
This is Thunderbird 52.6.0, I fear that version newer than 54.x will
have the same problem I'm debugging in newer Firefox now with
mandatory rust.
Headsup: The package is wip'ish and generally very ugly in code.

Thanks for sharing this. I appreciate that you published this in
WIP-state. I just scrolled through the .scm-definition and be impressed
of the length. Will look into the details later.

Maybe one of you can post the current patch to guix-patches and people
can then work from there? (There’s already a few WIP patches at
https://bugs.gnu.org/guix-patches and I think it’s a fine way to let
people know that you’ve started working on something but that more work
is needed.)
Thanks,
Ludo’.

As far as I understood Mark's reply, Mark will work on this and there's no need
for my work.
For different purposes I'll continue with mine (opt-in optionals somewhere else).
Working the coming (54.x version) rust problems with Mozilla based software
will be for the benefit of Guix too, so I hope I can tell you how to get past
the obstacles created by this.

[Mark H Weaver]

Hi Björn,

Post by Björn Höfling
One of my key customers needs a new GNU/Linux installation and they are
willing to give GuixSD a try if Thunderbird is available.
I thought that's no problem and was surprised to not find anything
like Icedove in the guix repository.

I looked into this a bit more, and the way forward now seems clear:
Parabola GNU/Linux has an Icedove package, based on Debian's Icedove but
with some additional fixes for FSDG and privacy issues. It seems to be
well-maintained and up-to-date with Mozilla ESR 52:

https://git.parabola.nu/abslibre.git/tree/libre/icedove

Icedove 52.x is based on the same upstream code as IceCat 52.x, so our
Icedove package should be based on our IceCat package, and possibly even
inheriting from it. Thanks to Nils for posting his preliminary patch,
but I don't think it will be useful to us.

No promises, but I'll try to find time in the next few days to make an
attempt at an Icedove package. As de-facto maintainer of the IceCat
package in Guix, I suppose that I'm well-positioned to work on this, and
I certainly agree that Guix should include Icedove.

Regards,
Mark

[Björn Höfling]

On Wed, 04 Apr 2018 01:14:53 -0400

Post by Mark H Weaver
No promises, but I'll try to find time in the next few days to make an
attempt at an Icedove package. As de-facto maintainer of the IceCat
package in Guix, I suppose that I'm well-positioned to work on this,
and I certainly agree that Guix should include Icedove.
Regards,
Mark

Sounds nice.

Thanks for doing that work.

Björn

[Mark H Weaver]

FYI, here's my current WIP patch to add Icedove. It's currently stuck
on the same issue that Nils reported being stuck on, but it's based on
our existing IceCat package and already includes most (maybe all?) of
the Icedove rebranding and FSDG fixes from Parabola.

This is currently based on core-updates, but it should apply to master
without difficultly. It also contains a few small untested changes to
the 'icecat' package.

I intend to continue working on this.

Mark